Suggestion for a sub-forum

[Preach]

This is an honest request, although it's probably gonna come off as a little bit of a challenge. This is actually honest, though.

Can we have a sub-forum in the Makaveli section where actual discussions are actually allowed, not merely sharing ones own opinions, "free of charge"? I am wanting something that's not quite "What's beef?" because that obviously doesn't necessarily foster good conversation. I am getting nothing from reading people saying shit like "PAC IS DA GOAT" and listing every producer and rapper Pac worked with, small-time or not, as the best rappers and producers in the world, and that everything that's not hiphop made by a person that grew up on the streets isn't real. I want to have discussions on a higher level than that, but whenever I try to, I just get silenced under some general rule that personal stuff should be handled in What's Beef?. Well it's not personal when I try to understand someone, or when they're saying something that's untrue or skewed, and those statements are derailments of healthy discussion and information exchange.

So I am actually requesting a Tupac sub forum where people can discuss whatever they like without having to move it to some obscure sub forum that's cheesy AF to continue the discussion. A place where teenagers who want to carry Pac on a pedestal have to actually say something of essence before their opinion is accepted. Where there is a focus on making yourself understood, rather than just saying what you want. I think it would be a really healthy addition, because there are lots of people who disengage from the scene because of what I'm talking about. Just the low level of intellect that's being displayed at times. It feels like discussing Cartoon Network series plots and characters some times and it's frustrating as fuck for people who've turned 25 and elevated from that type of thikning. There is no place anywhere on the Tupac scene for adult conversation, and there should be. Half his fans are white middle class people with educations that know how to debate.

[Big G.O.V.]

the question is, why does it bother you of you continue the discussion in the makaveli section or in the whats beef section?

it ruins the thread, when people have to read 2 pages of people arguing about each others opinions which end up having nothing to do with the main topic... this makes people just leave the thread and not reply anymore... this is not the attention of the thread creator...

you guys went way too deep into detail... it had to be moved.. also 'Move the fuck on fag. Fuck you and fuck your corny ass conversation.' is not what we want to see here in our discussions...

[Preach]

the question is, why does it bother you of you continue the discussion in the makaveli section or in the whats beef section?

it ruins the thread, when people have to read 2 pages of people arguing about each others opinions which end up having nothing to do with the main topic... this makes people just leave the thread and not reply anymore... this is not the attention of the thread creator...

If you think about every disagreement on a case-by-case basis you are right. However, if three discussions went on until the person just saying stupid shit had to eventually concede, you wouldn't be seeing these discussions much. It's just about the standard that's set, and right now, the standard is: it doesn't matter what you say. And if it doesn't rhyme, nobody can say shit about it or it gets moved/deleted/closed. It is self-evident why that's a bad idea, I shouldn't have to specify further. I get the part about being off-putting to new members though, but how many new members are we really seeing? Another worthwhile strategy would be to take care of the few long-time contributers that are still active, because they are important too, but whatever.

And I don't agree that it is off topic. It is a compartmentalization of a small detail in the larger discussion, but it is still nested in the original discussion. The original discussion is AEOM review, nested in that is the debate about the producers of the album and whether the review is relevant to our perception of the quality of production. It is exactly on point.

also 'Move the fuck on fag. Fuck you and fuck your corny ass conversation.' is not what we want to see here in our discussions...

Says who? You? Maybe you're wrong when you think you speak for everybody?

It's funny that you remove my posts due to being off-putting to new members, yet you call a member a fag and tell em to fuck off lol. Which is it, do you want to execute a policy that respects and takes care of members, or only when it's convenient? I dunno BIG GOV, this isn't your forum, you're just a moderator of it. You're like the police. You don't make the law, the whole forum does.

Can the rest of the forum staff chime in whether you stand by BIG GOVs statement? If so, fine, I'll abide and fuck off.

[Preach]

Oh, and it bothers me to have to move it to "What's beef?" because I am not trying to make a beef. The same reason you don't want to post the music you share in the Windows sub-forum of Technology. That's not where it belongs, categorically and principally.

[Palmolive Thug]

PAC IS DA GOAT

[LabelMeAnOutlaw]

Lmao I just saw this thread now. Dude really made another thread to cry more.

And putting words in my mouth. I never said that the AEOM producers were the greatest in the world. I love that you're worked up over shit I never even said. It is too funny. Keep thinking that you're of some higher intellect because you feel your opinion holds more weight than others. You don't really want a conversation, you want people to concede and agree with your every word as gospel.

Also, you're so intelligent that you didn't realize that Gov was quoting me from that AEOM Review thread. He wasn't calling you a fag here, I was calling you one over there. And clearly you're living up to that with this bullshit thread. You seem like you'd be a very annoying and difficult individual to deal with in real life. I'd bet anything that you're very socially awkward.

Hands down the weirdest member I've ever come across on this forum. "Agree to disagree" apparently isn't an acceptable stance. Lol

[RoyalPurple]

make a su b forum for occult, esoteric stuff.. or make a sub forum for 90s golden era rap.. similar how dubcc.com did it.

[7thdayprofessor]

the question is, why does it bother you of you continue the discussion in the makaveli section or in the whats beef section?

it ruins the thread, when people have to read 2 pages of people arguing about each others opinions which end up having nothing to do with the main topic... this makes people just leave the thread and not reply anymore... this is not the attention of the thread creator...

you guys went way too deep into detail... it had to be moved.. also 'Move the fuck on fag. Fuck you and fuck your corny ass conversation.' is not what we want to see here in our discussions...

I agree with him. There is a lack of intellect involved many a times. I personally, would like to see deeper convo, more facts, etc.

Btw. There is a huge difference between is a well intentioned debate, and a classic argument. I cannot stress that enough.

However, if I remember right, you guys cant make additions or subtraction, or edits at all to the structure, because it would have to go through josh, and nobody but him can do that. Am I correct in that?

To be honest, if there were such a section, it would have to be by invite only to work, in theory at least. That does seem like a giant pain in the ass.

Nonetheless, I would love it, if there were a sub in the forum, to which only those seeking, and putting forth, mentally stimulating conversation could enjoy.

I have been known to snap on someone if they attack me. However. I would act very much so, more responsible if I had the ability to avoid the simplicity that is sometimes attached to this forum. All bets are off when somebody starts talking shit to me on a open platform. However, that ideology would be restricted where needed.

[Preach]

Lmao I just saw this thread now. Dude really made another thread to cry more.

I'm not crying. I'm 32 years old. Stop that stupid rethoric, it should be beneath you. What is your actual age? Grown men don't cry, why do you even bring that up? Just goes to show how fuckin dubious you are with argumentation. It's the reason I don't wanna converse with people like you. You just say shit and you don't care and you don't think and when called on it you get all like this. I also didn't name you one single time in this thread, and our discourse in the other thread was deleted and unbeknownst to anyone but probably me, you and two more people. So why you feel the need to go in here and feel all targeted is beyond me. I'll now use a curse word to make sure I actually have your attention. Get this, fucking dipshit: I am not crying, it's that I actually mean what I say. Just because you disagree doesn't mean anything other than: You're not getting what the fuck I'm saying because in your world everything is personal. Like, really, give it a fucking rest, it really weakens your position. You're the one advancing with all the hostility. I am stating myself clearly and I was not being disrespectful. So go take a hike with that childish shit. Really, this is/you are exactly why I want the kind of sub forum I described. Because people like you can not disagree without turning it into a fight. And you're never wrong. And if someone doesn't ask you please you won't even listen to nothing. Yet you come here and post your shit. It's like children in kindergarden. I don't wanna put up with bullshit. I challenged your subjective claim that you decided to share in a discussion forum and you couldn't deal with it. You still can't, and you're still not making sense. We're done.

And putting words in my mouth. I never said that the AEOM producers were the greatest in the world. I love that you're worked up over shit I never even said. It is too funny. Keep thinking that you're of some higher intellect because you feel your opinion holds more weight than others. You don't really want a conversation, you want people to concede and agree with your every word as gospel.

Also, you're so intelligent that you didn't realize that Gov was quoting me from that AEOM Review thread. He wasn't calling you a fag here, I was calling you one over there. And clearly you're living up to that with this bullshit thread. You seem like you'd be a very annoying and difficult individual to deal with in real life. I'd bet anything that you're very socially awkward.

Why do you bring that issue into this thread? There is no direct relevance. Also GOV is totally taking your side so that technicality you're bringing up doesn't mean a thing. I wasn't responding to his one comment, I was responding to his general demenour. Also me and him were talking in the shoutbox that day and you didn't see that so you're not informed, which means you don't know what you are talking about. You don't know if GOV sent me 30 hate messages (which he didn't, but you don't know shit is my point). If you can't see that or really believe your own horseshit, well... Our discourse in the other thread is one example among many for why I am asking for what I'm asking for in this thread. Let me spell that out for you since you only read words at face value: That means that there are many more reasons than you, and you are only one of them. You're a straw of grass in a field of morons, that is your significance to this issue. 0.00000001%. It's not all about you but in your little world where everything is personal, I don't think you have the perspective to understand what I even mean when I say that. Also, you're assuming a lot of stuff even though you started your post saying I'm making assumptions. Your backwards ass way of argumentation is proof to me that you're not being open and honest. I could only speculate as to why, but I'm gonna assume I'm older than you. I at least see right through your behavior. This all started because you made an outlandish claim and I said "hey that's not entirely right" and then you got all... I dunno, like, I don't understand your reaction to any of my posts or how this developed into this. It's on you, though.

You don't know the first fucking thing about me by the way, but you are actually wrong on all accounts. I actually score quite high on agreeableness as a personality trait and that also rhymes with feedback I get in life. It's that I think your thoughts and way of expressing them is too unadvanced for me to get any kind of satisfaction from it, and any time people like me attempt to have deep discussion, people like you do exactly what you did this time around and turn it into a fight like children. It's so fucking boring when you're trying to have a good chat or want to actually engage in intellectual discussion. In real life, people, contrary to you, are actually polite. I'm not difficult because if someone said something stupid and I pointed it out to them in a polite manner, they would not respond with your impoliteness and emotional impulsiveness because they'd see my face and realize it's a reasonable question to be asking. How the fuck were those artists an allstar team in any other sense than the fact that you really like them? They weren't and aren't unless you get real specific about how to define it, which defeats the purpose of going for a top-shelf word like that and is a counter-intuitive use of language. Why didn't you just say "huh, yeah okay that's a point, but I do think they're really good and that the review was unfair"? I was already semi agreeing with your position, just not with your detailed assessment. How am I the one being awkward or difficult? You're being either consciously difficult, or you're actually not grasping what my intention was, and still isn't. In which case, I don't get why you're opting for being insulted over being curious.

Hands down the weirdest member I've ever come across on this forum. "Agree to disagree" apparently isn't an acceptable stance. Lol

Okay, you're hands down like a thousand other 2Pac fans I've seen on forums over the years and I don't care about you at all so go away from my threads, this is borderline stalking and weird behavior from someone who judges others for supposed weird behavior. I agreed to disagree when I stopped replying to the other thread. It's you who has the problem you are describing. And since you're projecting that, I'm starting to think everything you're saying is projecting. Whatever though, like, you got 1 post and here's my 1 back, we can now leave it at equal terms if you're actually serious about agreeing to disagree. All you have to do is shut up.

[Preach]

15% of western population have more than a 115 in IQ. Unless you know your own IQ, there's actually a fairly high chance (85-15%) that I'm smarter than you because I am in that percentile. I am not even being a dick, it is factual and something you're an idiot if you're turning a blind eye to. Would you tell a person with the genes of an athlete to settle for soccer practice once a week? And be like "you're so fucking sad" because they were tired of playing football with you, who fucking suck at it? Because that's my outlook on the situation and I 100% truly mean that from the bottom of my heart, and there are no tears involved. I don't cry when I think about Hitler either, but that doesn't mean I accept him. I'd kill that fucker, and I'd almost slap you but not actually because I'm actually a nice guy, if I could. Why do you wanna hate on a section that would be good for a lot of people, only because you take offense to our discussion in another thread? That's another really weak thing that totally just tells me everything about you. It's why I consider you a problem. You don't have any idea, and it shows quite well, how to understand the concept of structure.

[Preach]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation_theory

Read this, it will save your life.

Edit: and this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

You're not clever, at all.

[Preach]

Well, it is a selective act to show no humility in the face of hostility, if that makes a difference. There is a deleted set of posts going back and forth between me and him, and I maintain that he was totally unreasonable and still is, which is why I've opted to assail. He did start that with his lower-than-low jab at me. "Crying". Yeah, that's not something that invokes humility in me. What you said about street smart and say fuck you some times definitely applies here.

[7thdayprofessor]

15% of western population have more than a 115 in IQ. Unless you know your own IQ, there's actually a fairly high chance (85-15%) that I'm smarter than you because I am in that percentile. I am not even being a dick, it is factual and something you're an idiot if you're turning a blind eye to. Would you tell a person with the genes of an athlete to settle for soccer practice once a week? And be like "you're so fucking sad" because they were tired of playing football with you, who fucking suck at it? Because that's my outlook on the situation and I 100% truly mean that from the bottom of my heart, and there are no tears involved. I don't cry when I think about Hitler either, but that doesn't mean I accept him. I'd kill that fucker, and I'd almost slap you but not actually because I'm actually a nice guy, if I could. Why do you wanna hate on a section that would be good for a lot of people, only because you take offense to our discussion in another thread? That's another really weak thing that totally just tells me everything about you. It's why I consider you a problem. You don't have any idea, and it shows quite well, how to understand the concept of structure.

Im a legal genius. I fell into the Less than 1% of IQ test takers (145-159), in the 6th grade. I was reading at a college level in the fourth grade. Want to know something funny? I got kicked out of public school in the sixth grade for violent acts, as well as causing trouble of all sorts. I got my GED, because for all technical purposes, I left school in the sixth grade. I dont know how to properly write cursive. Yet, I can explain genetic design all day. I aced my college entrance exams, yet i got kicked out of college, for physically threatening the teacher. Not only that, but i am actually banned from the college premisis.

[MENTION=13334]Proletarian actually impresses me daily, and I disagree highly with some of the things he says.

So being smart, does not necessarily make any one person better. I agree with you on some points, and seem like a good dude. On others, I think your a asshole, with no humility. Your IQ is merely above average. Instead of growing some balls, how about grow something humble into your personallity.

So in essence, I'm a real street dude, no matter how smart I am. Aka, I maintain a level of humility, and remain humble. I am aware of both my strengths, as well as my weakneses. And believe me, I have plenty of both.

Regardless of whether I agree with your points or not, I am always appreciative of then when they are presented properly. But dont be afraid to say fuck you sometimes too tho. And dont be afraid to keep it down to earth.

With that said, I think your idea is great.

[Preach]

Im a legal genius. I fell into the Less than 1% of IQ test takers (145-159), in the 6th grade. I was reading at a college level in the fourth grade. Want to know something funny? I got kicked out of public school in the sixth grade for violent acts, as well as causing trouble of all sorts. I got my GED, because for all technical purposes, I left school in the sixth grade. I dont know how to properly write cursive. Yet, I can explain genetic design all day. I aced my college entrance exams, yet i got kicked out of college, for physically threatening the teacher. Not only that, but i am actually banned from the college premisis.

[MENTION=13334]Proletarian actually impresses me daily, and I disagree highly with some of the things he says.

So being smart, does not necessarily make any one person better. I agree with you on some points, and seem like a good dude. On others, I think your a asshole, with no humility. Your IQ is merely above average. Instead of growing some balls, how about grow something humble into your personallity.

So in essence, I'm a real street dude, no matter how smart I am. Aka, I maintain a level of humility, and remain humble. I am aware of both my strengths, as well as my weakneses. And believe me, I have plenty of both.

Regardless of whether I agree with your points or not, I am always appreciative of then when they are presented properly. But dont be afraid to say fuck you sometimes too tho. And dont be afraid to keep it down to earth.

With that said, I think your idea is great.

So my post disappeared or something, but here's a fair point if you ask me:

I don't know if you were reading the thread we started discussing in, which he is referring to when he says "he made another thread to cry". I don't know if you saw how our discourse developed. He said something I disagreed with and I pointed out why I disagree, and he basically shut me off while being passive aggressive and instantly reaching for insults in his first response. He was being unreasonable and so there's a history here that you may or may not be privy too, which you should consider before you conclude that I am an asshole with no humility. I didn't infer that being smart is better, I inferred that smart people (and especially people in your percentile) would actually thrive in a forum like that, similar to how a top athlete wouldn't find satisfaction doing low level sports. What my intelligence means or doesn't mean was not a point I was trying to make at all. It would have to be your assumption that I meant to infer value, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt - I get why you think that, so something about our insight into ourselves and our knowledge of the world makes that an assumption many of us are quick to go to. Fair enough.

You do not know me however, and are wrong about your assumptions that I actually lack a significant amount of humility. But you are right, none of us are born with it, learning is a journey, and we're all equipped with different abilities. Like say with your IQ it would be reasonable to expect you to get a better grasp of the concept of humility than I ever could with my merely-above-average intelligence. Which I perfectly accept, by the way, so cut me some slack right? I'll get there at some slower rate than you but hopefully eventually.

[Slut]

15% of western population have more than a 115 in IQ. Unless you know your own IQ, there's actually a fairly high chance (85-15%) that I'm smarter than you because I am in that percentile. I am not even being a dick, it is factual and something you're an idiot if you're turning a blind eye to. Would you tell a person with the genes of an athlete to settle for soccer practice once a week? And be like "you're so fucking sad" because they were tired of playing football with you, who fucking suck at it? Because that's my outlook on the situation and I 100% truly mean that from the bottom of my heart, and there are no tears involved. I don't cry when I think about Hitler either, but that doesn't mean I accept him. I'd kill that fucker, and I'd almost slap you but not actually because I'm actually a nice guy, if I could. Why do you wanna hate on a section that would be good for a lot of people, only because you take offense to our discussion in another thread? That's another really weak thing that totally just tells me everything about you. It's why I consider you a problem. You don't have any idea, and it shows quite well, how to understand the concept of structure.

The funny thing with IQs is that they are test specific. If one gets 136 in a Mensa test, he/she might be smarter than someone who got 141 in another Mensa test. They give you a percentage, which actually means something and can be compared too. The test I took was said not to be accurate enough to determine where one ranks within the top 1%, but it was able to tell if one was in that group. Mensa accepts member who rank in the top 2%.